where hoover gore nd all da leaders got it wrong

[Sheridan]

Yo....I know ima catch hell for sayin dis shit but I'm about to spill on where I think our leaders ( leaders who started any chicago gang ) got it wrong.

Nd its also where I think los angeles niggas got it right. One simple word.....Lit.

We shulda never made our lit a test to check other niggas in our gangs. Hoover gore nd all da rest fucked up in dat sense. Erybody lit is good shit , but it shulda never been where it was supposed to be secret. Cuz dats da shit dat opened up da door to niggas flase flaggin.


Shit ima use shortyworst as an example. I think he told me he in a vicelord hood so check dis out....let's say some nigga come to shortys hood wantin to do business but shorty think he suspect......all he got to do is figure out if he know any niggas connected to dat hood cuz niggas from you block nd yo hood is gonna know ya.


Dat shit be easy nd it be no way anyone culd false flag for too long. I respect ALL da leaders of all chi mobs I just think dey fucked up in dis way here.

[Sheridan]

I'm sayin our lit shulda never been a secret thing. It shulda been open. Nd da way to check niggas u think is false flaggin yo mob is to call up some niggas in da hood da suspect nigga claimin. Dat shits fullproof.

[imblack]

lit aint even a big deal anymore...

[GhostsSs]

lit aint even a big deal anymore...

Agreed.

And how did they fuck up by making constitutions and bylaws etc?

I personally say making lit a source of identification was way ahead of the game back then.
I love the fact this City has the structures it has. You know?

I don't think they fucked up at all..

[Sheridan]

Homie da lit itself is good. I aint got a problem wit da lit....just dat it was used as a way of testin niggas nd kept secret.

[shortyworst]

Thats STUPID to say lit dont mean shit, cause u sayin yo mob history and laws aint shit no more. But times is changed, the only way u gettin verified is if sumbody know u atleast out west thats how it is. And i wouldnt say making lit private was a bad thing, how was they suppose to know 40-50 years later there'd be something called internet lol? That shit made strucrure, which made alotta money, krpt niggas in line. Something LA gangs dont really have (except the money part)

[imblack]

But times is changed, the only way u gettin verified is if sumbody know u atleast out west thats how it is.

thats what i meant when i said lit doesnt matter anymore not saying it aint shit.

[Sheridan]

@shortyworst. Yea I FO SHO aint sayin lit don't mean shit. Da concepts dat hoover , gore , nd all da fathers of dis shit came up wit some BRILLIANT shit. I got mad love for erybodys lit even my enemies. All I'm sayin is by makin it secret , it became da test for niggas you don't know claimin yo mob. Nd since erybody got a cousin or somebody in a mob dey wanna be in , all dey got to to is get dat shit nd memorize it.


As to where , if da lit is open its like yo dis who we are dis what we represent. Now I aint sayin niggas shuld be open about mob business , but shit like dat shouldn't be written down for anyone to see anyway cuz ui never know when u gone gety busted den u got all dat lit in yo house or whatever.

[Illuminati_Child]

@shortyworst. Yea I FO SHO aint sayin lit don't mean shit. Da concepts dat hoover , gore , nd all da fathers of dis shit came up wit some BRILLIANT shit. I got mad love for erybodys lit even my enemies. All I'm sayin is by makin it secret , it became da test for niggas you don't know claimin yo mob. Nd since erybody got a cousin or somebody in a mob dey wanna be in , all dey got to to is get dat shit nd memorize it.


As to where , if da lit is open its like yo dis who we are dis what we represent. Now I aint sayin niggas shuld be open about mob business , but shit like dat shouldn't be written down for anyone to see anyway cuz ui never know when u gone gety busted den u got all dat lit in yo house or whatever.

Can't agree with this, boy is anyone thinking? Know the right lit you wouldnt have to call up so much to this hood and that hood. Aleast from my stand point cause Im not from the chi, my brothers up there always told me if they aint talking like you talking then they might be suspect, thats when calls go out. You think masons got to call the lodge and that? If you dont know then you not one 96% of the time. So keep it, not make it for the eyes of the public, then any nigga could say he anything.

[GhostsSs]

But times is changed, the only way u gettin verified is if sumbody know u atleast out west thats how it is.

thats what i meant when i said lit doesnt matter anymore not saying it aint shit.

And that is why I agreed in the first place. Nowadays the block will verify your status....

[backintheday]

lit don't make the man, too many other things to draw off if you screening someone... If they i-flagging they finto get exposed.

leadership these days change so quick and guys get locked up so much that checkin on guys ain't a great way to keep shit inline. If anything it creates more shit.

If the founders of the mobs made a mistake it was that they didn't put checks and balances in place, brothers lost trust in their leadership and even more as it changed the way it did until half the mobs was like fuck it I ain't respecting that shit no more I'm bar none or renegade whatever guys wanted to call it.

Chicago mobs stopped growing the way they should have, they lost their unity and their identity. If guys don't get their shit together out in the city, the nations are finto die.

[Lord Geechee]

It was Law : which all nations or organization must abide by
It was Education: to uplift Black Youth <like myself> through a Black self help philosophy
it was Structure: for latch key kids <b4 the net & Xbox live> it was a combo of j.a. & 4C clubs for us.
It was Discipline: present crop speaks for itself
It was a career path: Brand & Franchise management skills, that's after basic training was done and it began with a beat down

Where they messed up was when they did not allow the Franchises more liberty in reinterpretation of the foundationary Laws, the ability to amend itself was never worked in, so the Renegade phenomena was bound to happen, no orthodoxy can stand forever unchallenged!

Where we continue to fail is in our usage of pyramid style organizations!
Its time to build along the lines of Leaderless Resistance
or Breaking nations down into Autonomous Fire Groups who answer to a central council, but over all are Free to act in establishing a Franchise for the Brand yu represent.

Let's keep it real - we are business men in the Black Market, We control the Vice Markets in our "Hoods" taxes & market regulations are ours to make and enforce. These Markets are going to exist so long as humans exist upon this earth,what we need is an understanding between "Our Thing" and our Greater Community.
The ppl who Trafficked in Africans have no room judging Blacks who Traffic in Cultural Vices to our own ppl who accept it is a right of an adult to choose his or her own Vices,,

[Disco R]

The ppl who Trafficked in Africans have no room judging Blacks who Traffic in Cultural Vices to our own ppl who accept it is a right of an adult to choose his or her own Vices,,

Your comments are interesting, but this brings up what I think are the 2 major issues from Society's perspective: (1) Gangbanging does not serve the community, but endangers it; and (2) gangbanging and black market business involves youth more than adults.

As for leaderless resistance, (1) mobs are not political revolutions even though they may contain political and even religious elements, and (2) individual hoods are already behaving as autonomous cells, which makes the smooth functioning of a large organization nearly impossible. "Nations" break down into "tribes" and the Head can no longer develop strategies and plan on having the support of the entire Body.

[Sheridan]

See I don't blame hoover nd bobby gore or any of da leaders for da way shit is today....its no way dey culda predicted dis shit. When dey was growin up it was a strong black power vibe bein felt in da city nd dey had no reason to believe dat mentality wuld ever go away......plus dey could not have seen da crack epidemic comin.

[backintheday]

amendable laws would have been a great idea...


I still hold true to checks and balances though... leadership commitee's with voted in members by brothers themselves, not just by other leaders who making money from possible new leadership... everyone knows there them guys that out there paid for their status.

new protocols... protocols if leadership gets out of body, protocols for new leadership when needed, especially when guys get popped off.

the bigger mobs need to use current lit as understanding heritage and history. Where you came from and a starting point about who you are... Then leaderships need to get back together and put down new shit that will allow construction and growth.

[Lord Geechee]

Which segment of Society? < noticing your White>

I'm born n raise w/in this system and #1 its always been Business wise Adult run
and #2 never considered or referred to as GANG BANGING.

Recognition of ones self as Sovereign <ie Nationals > is Revolutionary, especially in the Nationalist charged atmosphere of the Cold War era! Even now for ppl Orgs with pysdo Islamic themes in this post 9/11 age.
In fact I consider myself a 1%er / Hardliner Nationalist, because of my die hard adherence to this Method of living.

But please dnt preach the conventions of White Society, because its that societies evil nature that gave birth to these Organizations!

[Disco R]

Which segment of Society? < noticing your White>

<noticing you're racist>

"Society" in the sense of everyone collectively, but especially neutrons/civilians who are not involved in "nation" business. Violence affects every race, drug addiction affects every race - not necessarily to the same degree or in the same way, but nobody wants to get shot, and being a drug addict is pretty much seen as "bad" by anyone I've ever talked to about the subject.

I'm born n raise w/in this system and #1 its always been Business wise Adult run

Adult run, yes. But kids are used as runners and lookouts, and kids are turned into future adult customers.

and #2 never considered or referred to as GANG BANGING.

It doesn't matter if you think of it as "gangbanging" - it only matters what people are actually doing out there and what effect it's having on communities.

Recognition of ones self as Sovereign <ie Nationals > is Revolutionary

I could see something like that, but I've never heard of any street Organizations actually declaring that they are Sovereign bodies.

But please don't preach the conventions of White Society, because its that societies evil nature that gave birth to these Organizations!

Really? How odd, then, that gang membership and violence has increased as (White) American society has become less and less racially conscious.

By the way, why would you assume from my previous post that I'm White? SCR's is a "multicultural" organization, and I hope that you're not saying proper grammar is a "White thing."

The stuff you're saying and your writing style (reading through other posts you've made on here) looks amazingly like this cat who used to post on internet forums claiming to be a BD. He was always ranting on Nation business from some kind of nationalist/tribalism/mystical perspective. But that wasn't you, right? Because you're a Lord.

[moblife216]

The problem is the lack of unity, comraderie, and brotherhood
that the elders envisioned..instead moving as a collective body
With free working limbs, it became a SELF issue..the crack era
Brought in material wealth for SELF and ONES forgot about the body..
Now we damn near brain dead, and the body can't control the limbs...

Amendable laws, leadership council, basically everything "BACKINTHEDAY"said ...
Good ideas

[SolidFoe]

Moblife how you draw

[crook_county]

lit wasn't the issue..it was when money got involved is when all that shit changed

thats why after what happened in 1995, the folks kinda fell apart becuz nobody was tryna honor a new nigga filling in those open slots..

[BangbangD]

BUT WHAT YOU SAYIN IS THE SAME THING NIGGA. NIGGAS KNOWING THE LIT WAS A WAY FOR NIGGAS TO SEE IF HE WAS REAL OR FALSE FLAGGIN CAUSE IF DUDE WAS PLUGGED WIT WHO HE SAID HE WAS PLUGGED WITH THEN HE WOULD KNO THE LIT U KNO ?

[HoodBeenUp]

Its good to test niggas. I'm sure no chi mobs want some off brand niggas claiming their shit out of town making chi mobs look bad because they have no structure or laws and watch to much gangland. Shit embarrassing. Look what NY did to the blood, latin king fad they turned it into a gangbang fashion contest. Look at lil wayne goofy as repping blood and piru and the 5 point star....shit a joke. Societys structure was built be organization and laws.

[imblack]

Its good to test niggas. I'm sure no chi mobs want some off brand niggas claiming their shit out of town making chi mobs look bad because they have no structure or laws and watch to much gangland. Shit embarrassing. Look what NY did to the blood, latin king fad they turned it into a gangbang fashion contest. Look at lil wayne goofy as repping blood and piru and the 5 point star....shit a joke. Societys structure was built be organization and laws.

@ gang bang fashion.

[moblife216]

Moblife how you draw

Solid T

[Sheridan]

The fact dat da lit was written down on paper nd it was so many copies of it is what caused all da false flaggin. Off brand niggas have lit now dats how dey get away wit da shit even before google it was copies of everyones shit goin around. It shoulda been another way to check a nigga dats all I'm sayin

[Sheridan]

@moblife216. Not to sound like a broken record , but u can blame crack for dat shit. Before dat , before 1984 , it was still a sense of togetherness felt by black people of all mobs. Black pride was in a nigga heart. After crack hit , well u know da rest my nigga pre 1984 or 1985 black people had a whole different mentality den what happened after crack

[Gittymo]

I dnt thin the lit was for vaildation if you read it it was really to give yur nation some type of direction and focus later on it transform to this if u real or nt but i can say in different areas u couldnt get past a certain point w/o knowin some shit

[Sheridan]

@gittymo. Naw some of my old school niggas showed me some shit. Everything a nigga need to pass was on them copies of lit , except for shit like da shake ups nd shit

[Gittymo]

i think the best way is to make a call and check somebody resume

[Evil Eye VELL]

i think the best way is to make a call and check somebody resume

...lol bro i aint know u still be on here lol palms upward & outward!

[Gittymo]

gotta check this bitch once n awhile

[Ltown2212]

It was Law : which all nations or organization must abide by
It was Education: to uplift Black Youth <like myself> through a Black self help philosophy
it was Structure: for latch key kids <b4 the net & Xbox live> it was a combo of j.a. & 4C clubs for us.
It was Discipline: present crop speaks for itself
It was a career path: Brand & Franchise management skills, that's after basic training was done and it began with a beat down

Where they messed up was when they did not allow the Franchises more liberty in reinterpretation of the foundationary Laws, the ability to amend itself was never worked in, so the Renegade phenomena was bound to happen, no orthodoxy can stand forever unchallenged!

Where we continue to fail is in our usage of pyramid style organizations!
Its time to build along the lines of Leaderless Resistance
or Breaking nations down into Autonomous Fire Groups who answer to a central council, but over all are Free to act in establishing a Franchise for the Brand yu represent.


Well said brother. Being a Vice Lord meant something back in the day. The rank and file was filed with wisdom. That all started to disappear in my generation. In the 90's brothers were still getting blessesd in, can't say the same about to day.
Let's keep it real - we are business men in the Black Market, We control the Vice Markets in our "Hoods" taxes & market regulations are ours to make and enforce. These Markets are going to exist so long as humans exist upon this earth,what we need is an understanding between "Our Thing" and our Greater Community.
The ppl who Trafficked in Africans have no room judging Blacks who Traffic in Cultural Vices to our own ppl who accept it is a right of an adult to choose his or her own Vices,,

[BromanC]

1st off let's start by saying NONE of these gangs/ "organizations" were started 2 benefit ANYTHING, except the kats that started them. 4 protection, a sense of belonging, 2 b tough or whatever. U have 2 1st remember the older "mobs": VL, LK, BGD, BSR, were ALL started by 16 & 17 yrs. What kinda since of ethnic unity & integrity do u think they actually had????
The rules were put in place b'cuz that's what clubs have, everyody knows that. The lit wasn't implemented until these kids became men & realized that their neighborhood thing had become a phenomenon, growing steadily out of their control. They had 2 give it some type of meaning & structure in order 2 keep tabs & stabiity. I don't think they meant it so much as a screening process as they meant it 2 give direction & identity. It just so happens that only members R (supposed 2B) privy 2 the information.
Now as far as my experience, calling & verifying only really comes N2 play when a position of authority comes N2 question. Never really N rank & file situations. It never really matters cuz what a person was on on his deck got nothin' 2 do w/ what's required on another. Thats if the person is trying 2 "transfer", if they're just visiting they're a guest. & Even more important, eventually just B'N around a kat long enuff is gonna tell they're character anyway....
If anything the originators only real mistake was thinking that they would ever B able 2 contain & micro manage the sh*t htey started N the 1st place....

[20:7:4]

1st off let's start by saying NONE of these gangs/ "organizations" were started 2 benefit ANYTHING, except the kats that started them. 4 protection, a sense of belonging, 2 b tough or whatever. U have 2 1st remember the older "mobs": VL, LK, BGD, BSR, were ALL started by 16 & 17 yrs. What kinda since of ethnic unity & integrity do u think they actually had????
The rules were put in place b'cuz that's what clubs have, everyody knows that. The lit wasn't implemented until these kids became men & realized that their neighborhood thing had become a phenomenon, growing steadily out of their control. They had 2 give it some type of meaning & structure in order 2 keep tabs & stabiity. I don't think they meant it so much as a screening process as they meant it 2 give direction & identity. It just so happens that only members R (supposed 2B) privy 2 the information.
Now as far as my experience, calling & verifying only really comes N2 play when a position of authority comes N2 question. Never really N rank & file situations. It never really matters cuz what a person was on on his deck got nothin' 2 do w/ what's required on another. Thats if the person is trying 2 "transfer", if they're just visiting they're a guest. & Even more important, eventually just B'N around a kat long enuff is gonna tell they're character anyway....
If anything the originators only real mistake was thinking that they would ever B able 2 contain & micro manage the sh*t htey started N the 1st place....

BRA U RIGHT SOO THAT KILLS THE WHERE THESE FOUNDERS,LEADERS,CHIEFS,KIBGS GOT IT WRONG..ITS THE BODY DAT GOTS IT WRONG MORE LIKE I MEAN THE C.O.C THE SOLDERS,OUTSTANDIN MEMBERS,THE SHIESTY ASS 2 FACED PEOPLE WITH HIGH RANKING

[BigFoe]

man all you dum lil niggas worried about gang leaders that are long gone and not in control anymore..

how bout yall dum asses wake up and start focusing on real issues like how the govt tryna take all our guns away and how they tryna privatize every little thing... from our healthcare to how we get paid.. raising our taxes and all that otha bullshit..